Dept. of Sunday Night

[kaffy_r]

Keeping Up with Keeping Up

Short, and probably not completely sweet:

The Hugos. Kudos to Noah Ward, and pointing and jeering (albeit, believe it or not, with a great deal of sadness) and the Sad and Rabids, who have been involved in a frothing and gnashing of teeth-type declarations that "Our Loss Proclaims Our Win!" and/or "Our Loss Proclaims that The Tiny Clique of Evil Anti-Democratic SJW's Somehow Gathered Enough Votes to Beat Us despite us asking everyone we could think of to game the system wait, that's right out, we did not say that" - or possibly both, because ... because Puppies. 

Went to a barbecue on the far - very far - South Side of Chicago. The hosts are kind of great people; she's a long time fan and labor activist who's volunteering for Bernie, he's in the city's fire department whose generally liberal, or liberal-leaning attitude is possibly unusual for the fire department. I say all this because I had a bit of A Moment with some of the people at the barbecue, folks that the husband knows from his work. They were perfectly lovely, of that type (she said patronizingly ... yeah, I know what I sound like) - until I heard them talking about Caitlyn Jenner. I'm sure you can guess the kind of things; mis-gendering the pronouns deliberately because "he's still a guy," and declaring with certainty that "he's" doing it for the publicity and the money. 

Yeah; we don't even want to go there, do we? I had a moment of "this is not my party and I don't know these people, and I don't want to be rude." 

And then I figured, hell, no. So I said I thought it was simply good manners to use the pronouns that someone wished to be called. One woman, who obviously figured that perhaps they'd made at least some sort of misstep, did the "Well, of course, but 'he's' doing it for money -" And I said I figured she did it because she had to be what she really was. There was no further discussion of Caitlyn Jenner. Bob was amused at the fact that I'd crossed me arms as I said all this; I undoubtedly looked rather holier-than-thou. 

But I was right, and they were wrong - and my host told me later that she'd have done the same thing.  So take that, you fucking bigots. 

Gah.

 Also, still working on the master list - but I've run into an unexpected problem. As I've gone back to gather up my stories, I've discovered all sorts of extremely aggravating coding problems with some of my stories, nearly all of them centering around Dreamwidth's apparent inability to provide me workable cuts, at least if I do the posts in Chrome. I've gone into the http and checked the codes (of course, by "codes" I mean the monumentally simplistic lj/dreamdwidth codes, because I don't know anything but those) and in some cases, it seems as if everything's coded properly ... augh ... anyhow, I've found myself digging around, trying to fix that, instead of setting up the fic indexes. I do seem to be very easily diverted from my purpose.

And finally, I've started re-reading one of my favorite C.J. Cherryh series, the Chanur series. I had forgotten how much I loved all the characters, and the world-building; the hani, the mahe ... and, for providing really fascinating villains, the kif. And of course the methane breathers ... I'm into the fourth book and still loving it. 

So - how's by everyone else?

Also - I promise I'll get back and respond to folks in earlier posts, and try to catch up with everyone else. 

Comments

[shanghaied]

Actually IMTAO you were both wrong, though yours was a much-less-wrong wrong. And what I mean by that is: having observed the former public life of the woman called Caitlyn Jenner, the man called Bruce Jenner always seemed to be about the publicity and the money, certainly from the moment of his Olympic triumph (which I watched, enjoyed and applauded) onwards. The tacky cereal adverts. The tacky attempt to get cast as Superman. The ever tackier career path that led him to marry a lumpen piranha determined to make its entire repellent clan rise to the top of the telly shit-heap for no reason beyond being famous for being famous. So yes, given that Bruce J always seemed in it for the publicity and money, there's no reason to think that Caitlyn J isn't also in it for those.

As for those people's intransigence, all I can offer is the suggestion that you remember and reflect on the progress our society has made in our lifetime in terms of societal - and social - equality, from the sexually and intellectually stifled Stepford/Pleasantville of the 1950s to Stonewall, Roe versus Wade, women being able to own property and have their own bank accounts (yes, even in our so-called 'free West', in many places this didn't change until after the previous two events) and so on up through the marriage equality referenda and the USA Supreme Court decision affecting equal marriage. Change takes time. We're only a little more than a century away from the end of the Victorian Age, hmm?

Sadly, our species also assures that change is pretty much always temporary, but that's 'temporary' on a scale of centuries. So do let's celebrate the progress we've made and try to be patient with the holdouts.

Also - I never did send you that private reply. Having read some of your other recent posts, I doubt I ever will. But my welcome still stands, should you ever make it to my part of the physical world, not least because I'd like a face-to-face chance to lead you towards the land of reason :P :P :P

[kaffy_r]

Sorry to take so long to reply ... the old, tired excuse of Life is coming from an old, tired broad. But let's see if I can respond in any sort of reasonably rational manner.

I think what I failed to make clear in my post is that these folks made it clear that they believed Caitlyn Jenner had decided to go through the hell and heartache, the physical wrenches and the societal misunderstandings and non-understandings, of transition purely, or initially, or solely, because Jenner thought it was a great way to make money.

Jenner has apparently been involved in a very lucrative televised lifestyle. That's as may be; she's obviously at ease in front of a camera and it's entirely possible that she decided, having made her decision, that she wanted to be in front of the cameras again as she made her transition. I don't argue that her personality doesn't have a money-grubbing aspect to it.

But it's not her personality that's at issue here. It's the simple question: why did Caitlyn decide to transition?

It is beyond doubtful, right on into the land of Does Not Compute, to decide that someone gets up in the morning and says, "Hey, I need more money! How can I get some? I know! I'll change gender, with (as mentioned above) all the vast and life-changing struggles implicit in the process! Wow! I can hardly wait to be made fun of - and, hey, the chance of being beaten to death in a back alley is totally worth it, because I can't make enough easy TV money simply by being Bruce Jenner, step-dad to the immensely remunerative Kardashian kids ...."

It's in line with the idea that being gay is a choice; yeah, the kind of choice that gets you ostracized, abandoned by family, hurt, fired, etc. etc.

I think it was important for me to speak up because I have, throughout my life, declined to speak up in public because of a) cowardice and b) a desire not to rock the boat. As I've gotten older, I've realized that just speaking up online isn't enough. When I spoke up, I was fairly polite about it, but I didn't stay silent out of a desire to be polite. That is a point it's taken me decades to reach.

But you are very right to remind me of the long way we've come. Most of the time I remember that; sometimes I forget.

The private reply about my attachment to writing fanfic? Some day perhaps we'll have that discussion, either in private email letters or - should luck attend me - a face to face get together. I never mind your urgings, even as I fail to respond to them. And I'm sure my last couple of posts, all full of excitement about writing the next chapter, or for actually organizing my various stories, must have made you shake your head/roll your eyes/both. Totally understandable. Heh.

The land of reason? I'm still trying to find my way to Fletcher Pratt's Land of Unreason, simply because the title is so attractive to say.

[shanghaied]

In no order...

Never heard of Fletcher Pratt, so I wikied. How would you compare him to e.g. Boucher or Leiber? Not that I've had any particular interest in reading science fiction for many, many years with the exception of Neal Stephenson and a small selection of the works of Connie Willis (how can someone get some books so right and then go and lose the plot so spectacularly, as she's done IMTAO with that ghastly turgid Blackout/All Clear pair...), but I'm a tiny bit curious :-)

I never have understood and never will understand the NonSapienses who think sexual orientation is a matter of choice. And by 'understand' I mean 'get my brain around how it's possible for a sickeningly large number of hairless chimpanzees to fall so easily for ridiculous lies propagated by ignorant - or worse, deliberately self-blinded - gits driven by fear of their own inadequacies', or something like that. But at the same time I would have to say that yes, our species covers such a vast spectrum of weird and weirder that there undoubtedly are some specimens who would go to such insane-to-us lengths simply for a few extra milliseconds of ill-gotten fame. Whether or not Jenner is one such isn't a question you or I can answer without access to the flies on her wall o_0

As for I'm sure my last couple of posts, all full of excitement about writing the next chapter, or for actually organizing my various stories, must have made you shake your head/roll your eyes/both. Totally understandable. Heh.: actually, no. It's not the fanfic, it's the general fandomism (with a side portion of FWP-meets-SJW) that presses my ick button. But I still like your brain, even if I see it as wandering off in some dodgy directions :P

BTW speaking up in real life is always a good thing so long as it doesn't jeopardise one's income or personal safety - unless one is willing to take whatever bad things might happen as a result. We need the Rosa Parkses and the Edward Snowdens, but not everyone is as willing or able to put their own necks on the block...

[bibliofile]

Go you for speaking up in favor of others' self identities, especailly regarding gender. Doesn't have to be confrontational, just factual. And as Neil R would point out, half the time you're talking to everyone not just the mistaken person.

[kaffy_r]

I did try to be quiet about it. But the arm folding was probably a little much. Heh.

[tardis-stowaway.livejournal.com]

I was so happy to see that the Puppies didn't manage to take a single category. (Well, they had GotG on their lists, but that would have probably have been nominated anyway and the filmmakers had nothing to do with the Puppies.) I was proud of the SF fandom community for that.

[kaffy_r]

So was I; I was also happy to hear the at the Worldcon business meeting, two different resolutions passed that would require specific voting method changes. They still need to be ratified at next year's Worldcon business meeting, and I haven't looked at them (and probably wouldn't understand them if I did, having barely any understanding of the Australian ballot that currently governs Hugo voting), but it appears that, as of 2017, this kind of gaming of the system will be, if not impossible, very close to it.

In what is perhaps connected to my crowing over the Hugos (or possibly the Caitlyn thing), someone on my friends' list unfriended me today. It was a person I was slightly surprised friended me back some many months ago, because they are significantly right wing, so I'm not surprised at the move. Just disappointed.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

Well, they had GotG on their lists, but that would have probably have been nominated anyway...

Yeah, thanks to the Hugos having released the voting statistics for all of the voting rounds, I've seen more than one person say the numbers make it pretty clear GotG would've been there with or without the Puppies. If you'd like to see laid out what the finalists ballot would likely have looked like without the Puppie freeping you can see io9's take on it here. While it's a little sad thinking about what might have been, it's nice to know what to really go out and read.

[kaffy_r]

Thanks for including the links to those stats; fascinating!

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! I'm such a geek I couldn't resist sharing the stats. :D

[liadt]

One day all the stupid people will go away. Well, I can always hope!

[kaffy_r]

Heh. Probably not, though, given that all of us can become Extremely Stupid given anything from lack of sleep to utter provocation. I imagine you're talking about the consistently stupid, however, and in that, I share your optimism.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Bless you, bb...and thank you for correcting the bigots!!

And yay, I'm not the only Bernie fan! Whew...

*HUGS*

[kaffy_r]

The correction was a little thing, but I'm glad I did it.

Oh, your'e definitely not the only Bernie fan - in this household the person who can donate to political efforts as I cannot has done so on Bernie's behalf.

*hugs you back*

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Bernie has been speaking my language for over 25 years. He may not be elegant, he may not be 'scripted', but that's really the charm. He's been speaking on these issues for so long and now he's being heard - because we are WANTING to hear him.

SO crossing my fingers!! The alternatives are...unpleasant.

*HUGS*

[kaffy_r]

Yeah; the farther he goes, the more influence he has with people. And he makes All The Sense, especially about not kow-towing to the big banks.

And single payer health system, FTfuckin'W.

[clocketpatch]

I wasn't following the Hugo vote in any meaningful way... and yet I am Still very, very, very pleased to hear that the Sad Puppy factions of SF fandom were out voted, and that the system is being changed to prevent such maliciousness in future.

[kaffy_r]

Yup. The the level of frothing, zizzing, gnashing of teeth and throwing of completely disgusting insults at SJWs is, even now, pretty awe-inspiring. By awe-inspiring I mean, of course, outrageously disgusting.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

The Hugos. Kudos to Noah Ward...

Speaking as some one who ponied up the 40$ to (among other things) vote for him repeatedly, I'm very pleased with the outcome. With the Hugos having released the voting statistics on all of the voting for the Hugos this year, I've seen it estimated that somewhere between 800 and 1000 of the 5,950 total voters in the voting for the winners were Puppies. They brought out a crowd with their freeping the nominating stage, and it was not friendly to them. I've heard there were as many No Awards given out in one night, as in the entire previous history of the Hugos combined. I've also heard that the percentage by which the new record for number of voters, set this year, exceeded the old one was 65%. I couldn't help thinking the Puppies at least put a lot of extra money, at at least 40$ a pop, into the budget for next years Hugos.

[kaffy_r]

The puppies are certain that the Hugo losses were a) what they already planned (VD), or b) the result of a conspiracy (every Puppy) - you know, unlike the organized call for Gam*rg*t*rs to nominate, who apparently didn't hang around long enough after the initial nomination process to actually vote in the finals.

I'd love to think some of the many people who turned out to vote this year might find it interesting enough to turn out next year, too. I'm not optimistic, but I'll hope.

And the thought that those folks ponied up enough to make the Hugo budget even sturdier for next year? Yeah, I'm giggling, too.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

I'd love to think some of the many people who turned out to vote this year might find it interesting enough to turn out next year, too.

Well, one of the things in favor of at least some of the new World Science Fiction Society members returning next year is that the membership they bought this year gives them a right to be part of next year's nominating process. In buying a membership they didn't just buy into voting "no award" this year, they bought into making nominations next year. Next year's noms could be very different both from what the puppies would like, and from years before. Hard to say.

I'm not optimistic, but I'll hope.

I don't expect they'll all come back, but I do suspect that to a certain extent the puppies paranoia has been self-fulfilling. They pissed a lot of people off by attacking a non-existent conspiracy, and some of those people will stay pissed, becoming a rabid core of their own. The puppies may not have completely politicized the awards, but they made sure that people who really hate people like them know that the awards are something the puppies are willing to try and drag down. There will be resistance there that they weren't facing before.

And the thought that those folks ponied up enough to make the Hugo budget even sturdier for next year? Yeah, I'm giggling, too.

It's in my Top Three favorite things with how well Noah Ward did, and GotG winning in spite of the puppies not because of them. ;-)

[ljgeoff.livejournal.com]

Oh, Chanur -- one of my favorites, too. I pretty much love everything Cherryh has written. I fell for Vayne pre' hard, back in the day.

[kaffy_r]

I adore a lot of her stuff, but Chanur is pretty much at the top of the heap for me. Also like The Faded Sun series. I'm blanking on Vayne, but I can check my collection. Heh.